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Tibetan Youth Congress = Taliban?
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10:12, April 10, 2008

 Related Channel News
· Riots in Lhasa
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How western journalists cover the Tibet riots is a textbook example of biased journalism. Nothing innovative here. Just old tricks recycled.

Life expectancy of Tibetan was 35.5 years in 1959 vs. 67 years in 2005.And the infant mortality rate was 43% in 1959 and 3.1 % in 2005 (4.8% inCanada, 2006 data). What happened? Since 1959, 1,326 new medical institutions have been built ,among which, 764 new hospitals or clinics, 79 disease prevention centers and55 health centers dedicated to women and children. How about education? Before 1950, there was almost no decent school inTibet, less than 2% school-age children received education and theilliteracy rate was 95%. In 2003, 91.9% school-age children in Tibetenrolled in primary schools; 82.9% primary schools students continuedstudying in middle schools; and 72.1% middle school graduates continuedhigher education. All are decent numbers even they were from communities in U.S.

No matter what kind of religion peeople follow and what kind of life harmony pople pursue: living longer is good; fewer infant deaths is good; more education is good.

Tibetans put religion in first place. So does "his holiness", the DaLaiLlama hold that they don't need hospitals, don't need to get education, don't want to live longer, don't want more babies to survive? Are rights to medical care, to education, to have healthy babies not human rights?

Denying Tibetans those rights is the biggest human rights abuse!

Before 1959, Tibet was under the Lamaist (Buddhist) theocracy. Just like most theocracies in history, it was a very cruel and inhumane form of governing. Tibet before 1959 was close to, if not worse than, the Afghanistan under the Taliban regime.

Michael Parenti, a history professor from U.S, (http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html)
provides the following finding:

"In the Dalai Lama's Tibet, torture and mutilation -- including eye gouging, the pulling out of tongues, hamstringing, and amputation of arms and legs -- were favored punishments inflicted upon thieves, runaway serfs, and other "criminals."

Some Western visitors to Old Tibet remarked on the number of amputees to be seen. Since it was against Buddhist teachings to take human life, some offenders were severely lashed and then "left to God" in the freezing night to die. "The parallels between Tibet and medieval Europe are striking," concludes Tom Grunfeld in his book on Tibet.

Theocratic despotism had been the rule for generations. An English visitor to Tibet in 1895, Dr. A. L. Waddell, wrote that the Tibetan people were under the "intolerable tyranny of monks" and the devil superstitions they had fashioned to terrorize the people. In 1904 Perceval Landon described the Dalai Lama's rule as "an engine of oppression" and "a barrier to all human improvement." In 1937, another visitor, Spencer Chapman, wrote, "The Lamaist monk does not spend his time in ministering to the people or educating them, nor do laymen take part in or even attend the monastery services. The beggar beside the road is nothing to the monk. Knowledge is the jealously guarded prerogative of the monasteries and is used to increase their influence and wealth."

Does the West want to support another Taliban?

There are good reasons and tons of books on the separation of church and state.You people on the bandwagon blasting China might want to read those books first.

One respects the belief on "incarnation". But it seems that should be reserved for choosing a religion leader rather than choosing a government head. Democracy builds on accountability-government officials are accountable for the voters. The voters can deny their leaders positions through voting. Not sure about DaLaiLLam's thoughts on democracy.

And democracy also builds on educated voters. Before 1959, the illiteracy rate was 95% and common Tibetans seldom got chance to be educated. Do you expect people who can't read to understand how a modern government operates and how to hold their leaders accountable?

Here are some historical facts about T!bet, all from westerners.

"In the Da-Lai La Ma's T!bet, torture and mutilation -- including eye gouging, the pulling out of tongues, hamstringing, and amputation of arms and legs -- were favored punishments inflicted upon thieves, runaway serfs, and other "criminals."

Journeying through Tibet in the 1960s, Stuart and Roma Gelder interviewed a former serf, Tsering Wangdui, who had stolen two sheep belonging to a monastery. For this he had both his eyes gouged out and his hand mutilated beyond use. He explains that he no longer is a Buddhist: "When a holy lama told them to blind me I thought there was no good in religion."

Some Western visitors to Old T!bet remarked on the number of amputees to be seen. Since it was against Buddhist teachings to take human life, some offenders were severely lashed and then "left to God" in the freezing night to die. "The parallels between T!bet and medieval Europe are striking," concludes Tom Grunfeld in his book on T!bet.

Some monasteries had their own private prisons, reports Anna Louise Strong. In 1959, she visited an exhibition of torture equipment that had been used by the T!betan overlords. There were handcuffs of all sizes, including small ones for children, and instruments for cutting off noses and ears, and breaking off hands.

Theocratic despotism had been the rule for generations. An English visitor to T!bet in 1895, Dr. A. L. Waddell, wrote that the T!betan people were under the "intolerable tyranny of monks" and the devil superstitions they had fashioned to terrorize the people. In 1904 Perceval Landon described the Da Lai La Ma's rule as "an engine of oppression" and "a barrier to all human improvement."

At about that time, another English traveler, Captain W.F.T. O'Connor, observed that "the great landowners and the priests . . . exercise each in their own dominion a despotic power from which there is no appeal," while the people are "oppressed by the most monstrous growth of monasticism and priest-craft the world has ever seen." T!betan rulers, like those of Europe during the Middle Ages, "forged innumerable weapons of servitude, invented degrading legends and stimulated a spirit of superstition" among the common people.

In 1937, another visitor, Spencer Chapman, wrote, "The Lamaist monk does not spend his time in ministering to the people or educating them, nor do laymen take part in or even attend the monastery services. The beggar beside the road is nothing to the monk. Knowledge is the jealously guarded prerogative of the monasteries and is used to increase their influence and wealth."

More on:
http://www.swans.com/library/art9/mparen01.html#019

Is there anyone here have read the history of Tibet before 1950? Anyone?

I happened to read couples of books written by historians from Britain.

The history before 1950 is relevant to answer the question: what will happen if one day, Tibet gets its independence? Will they live happily thereafter(as most Da Lia supporters assume)? The world will be better off?

There is a close modern parallel: The Afghanistan under the Taliban regime. Is that a kind of regime you guys are looking forward to?

Before 1959, T!bet was under the Lamaist (Buddhist) theocracy. Just like most theocracies in history, it was a very cruel and inhumane form of governing. Most T!bentans were under the slavery by the monks. It was a slavery, agreed by most western historians.

Speak of the facts, before 1959, human rights situation was a lot worse. Many offenses were punished by cutting arms and legs or taking out eyes, literally. Read the history yourself. One of the books I read was published by Cambridge University.

I haven't heard about Da Lai Lama denounced the Lamaist (Buddhist) theocracy. I hope he has the ability to deliver a modern democracy.

Read history. Please.

Life expectancy of T!betan was 35.5 years in 1959 vs. 67 years in 2005

Infant mortality rate was 43% in 1959 and 3.1 % in 2005 (4.8% in Canada, 2006 data).

Since 1959, 1,326 new medical institutions have been built ,among which, 764 new hospitals or clinics, 79 disease prevention centers and 55 health centers dedicated to women and children.

Before 1950, there was almost no decent school in T!bet, less than 2% school-age children received education and illiteracy rate was 95%. In 2003, 91.9% school-age children in T!bet enrolled in primary schools; 82.9% primary schools students continued studying in middle schools; and 72.1% middle school graduates continued higher education. All are decent numbers even for communities in U.S.

No matter what kind of religion they follow and what kind of life harmony they pursue, living longer is good; fewer infant deaths is good; more education is good.

And talking about the special treatment, in T!bet, T!betans don't need to follow the one-child policy. The policy only applies to Han people.

Comment on: A week in Tibet | Trashing the Beijing Road | Economist.com at 3/25/2008 9:43 PM EDT
Why the western media is biased?

How western journalists cover the Tibet riots is a textbook example of biased journalism. Nothing innovative here. Just old tricks recycled.

There is a book called "Manufacturing Consents", an assigned reading in most U.S universities for journalism majors. Now examples criticized by this book become the writing guidances for covering China.

The whole western civilization is based on rational thinking-facts, logic, analysis, comparison and etc. But when it comes to cover events related to Tibet, those thinking skills are temparily suspended by Editors until the journlists are reassigned to cover, for example, cow-milking advance in rural French villages.

Economist, for example, is an excellent weekly magazine full of numbers from big mac indexes to GDP growth, economic analysis based on latest researches, papers, until it begins to cover Tibet.

I used the "Pocket World in Figures" published by Economist as my reference when I was writing the post titled "Have Tibetans been better off since 1959?" The metrics like life expectancy ( 35.5 years in 1959 vs. 67 years in 2005), infant mortality rate (43% in 1959 and 3.1 % in 2005--4.8% inCanada, 2006 data), the number of medical facilities (1,326 new medical institutions that have been built) are all standard metrics in the pocket book. So there is no excuse to pretend "we don't know how to measure". You are experts!

Aren't those significant and laudable achivements for any government? Don't forget what Tibet was like in 1959!!!

Tibetans put religion in first place. So they don't need hospitals, don't need to get education, don't want to live longer, don't want more babies survive? Are rights to medical care, to education, to have healthy babies not human rights?
Denying Tibetans those rights is the biggest human rights abuse!

If yes, they are human rights.Then, why achievements in those areas have been measured?

Let's have a debate based on rational thinkings, the same way we analyze economic or social issues in Europe or in U.S.

Otherwise, you journalists are lowering your own moral standard and your own professionalism. Your reporting is not only humiliating the wisdom of Chinese but also the wisdom of your own readers!

And what you have written, a few years later, will be complied into another book titled "Manufacturing Non-sense"
Comment on: Tibet | A colonial uprising | Economist.com at 3/25/2008 9:41 PM EDT
Why the western media is biased?

How western journalists cover the Tibet riots is a textbook example of biased journalism. Nothing innovative here. Just old tricks recycled.

There is a book called "Manufacturing Consents", an assigned reading in most U.S universities for journalism majors. Now examples criticized by this book become the writing guidances for covering China.

The whole western civilization is based on rational thinking-facts, logic, analysis, comparison and etc. But when it comes to cover events related to Tibet, those thinking skills are temparily suspended by Editors until the journlists are reassigned to cover, for example, cow-milking advance in rural French villages.

Economist, for example, is an excellent weekly magazine full of numbers from big mac indexes to GDP growth, economic analysis based on latest researches, papers, until it begins to cover Tibet.

I used the "Pocket World in Figures" published by Economist as my reference when I was writing the post titled "Have Tibetans been better off since 1959?" The metrics like life expectancy ( 35.5 years in 1959 vs. 67 years in 2005), infant mortality rate (43% in 1959 and 3.1 % in 2005--4.8% inCanada, 2006 data), the number of medical facilities (1,326 new medical institutions that have been built) are all standard metrics in the pocket book. So there is no excuse to pretend "we don't know how to measure". You are experts!

Aren't those significant and laudable achivements for any government? Don't forget what Tibet was like in 1959!!!

Tibetans put religion in first place. So they don't need hospitals, don't need to get education, don't want to live longer, don't want more babies survive? Are rights to medical care, to education, to have healthy babies not human rights?
Denying Tibetans those rights is the biggest human rights abuse!

If yes, they are human rights.Then, why achievements in those areas have been measured?

Let's have a debate based on rational thinkings, the same way we analyze economic or social issues in Europe or in U.S.

Otherwise, you journalists are lowering your own moral standard and your own professionalism. Your reporting is not only humiliating the wisdom of Chinese but also the wisdom of your own readers!

And what you have written, a few years later, will be complied into another book titled "Manufacturing Non-sense"
Comment on: A week in Tibet | Trashing the Beijing Road | Economist.com at 3/24/2008 6:28 PM EDT
To TibetanGirl
Your writing seems reasonable. I think you are a Tibetan.
I am writing to you directly and with all my respect.

Have you read the history of Tibet before 1950? If not, I encourage you to read every book you can find. Otherwise, you can't get the whole or real picture. What do you think those human rights abuses against your own people before 1959? I am against any human rights abuse, befor or after 1959. How about you?

The second question is, assuming Tibet gets its independence, what is your plan for the new government?

I encourage you to give it some thoughts and read books on modern government. There are good reasons and tons of books on the separation of church and state.You might want to read those books first.

I respect your belief on "incarnation". But it seems that should be reserved for choosing a religion leader rather than choosing a government head. Democracy builds on accountability-government officals are accountable for the voters. The voters can deny their leaders positions through voting. Not sure about your thoughts on democracy.

And democracy also builds on educated voters. Before 1959, the illiteracy rate was 95% and common Tibetans seldom got chance to be educated. Do you expect people who can't read to understand how a modern government operates and how to hold their leaders accountable?

You might have friends and relatives in Tibet. Could you check the facts I provided in another comment "Have Tibetans been better off since 1959?"? Especially, the numbers on schools and hospitals. I think those numbers are true-schools and hospitals are buildings and should be very easy to verify.

Looking forward to your thoughts!
Comment on: Tibet | Fears of contagion from Tibet | Economist.com at 3/24/2008 10:34 AM EDT
Have Tibetans been better off since 1959?

This question is strangely missing from most China-bashing articles relatedto the recent Tibetan riots. And the Economist only covered the economic part.

Let's be spiritual and skip the economy completely. Let's look at public health instead.

Life expectancy of Tibetan was 35.5 years in 1959 vs. 67 years in 2005.
And the infant mortality rate was 43% in 1959 and 3.1 % in 2005 (4.8% inCanada, 2006 data).

What happened? Since 1959, 1,326 new medical institutions have been built ,among which, 764 new hospitals or clinics, 79 disease prevention centers and55 health centers dedicated to women and children.

How about education? Before 1950, there was almost no decent school inTibet, less than 2% school-age children received education and theilliteracy rate was 95%. In 2003, 91.9% school-age children in Tibetenrolled in primary schools; 82.9% primary schools students continuedstudying in middle schools; and 72.1% middle school graduates continuedhigher education. All are decent numbers even they were from communities in U.S.

People generally agree - no matter what kind of religion they follow and whatkind of life harmony they pursue-that: live longer is good; fewer infantdeaths is good; more education is good.

Have Tibetans been better off?

And talking about the special treatment, in Tibet, Tibetans don't need to follow the famous one-child policy. The policy only applies to Han people.

It is a shame that most western reporters don't provide a comprehensive comparison or analysis; Economist is better but not much.
Comment on: Tibet | Fears of contagion from Tibet | Economist.com at 3/24/2008 10:34 AM EDT
Do you want to support another Taliban?

Before 1959, Tibet was under the Lamaist (Buddhist) theocracy. Just like most theocracies in history, it was a very cruel and inhumane form of governing. Tibet before 1959 was close to, if not worse than, the Afghanistan under the Taliban regime.

Michael Parenti, a history professor from U.S, (http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html)
provides the following finding:

"In the Dalai Lama's Tibet, torture and mutilation -- including eye gouging, the pulling out of tongues, hamstringing, and amputation of arms and legs -- were favored punishments inflicted upon thieves, runaway serfs, and other "criminals."

Some Western visitors to Old Tibet remarked on the number of amputees to be seen. Since it was against Buddhist teachings to take human life, some offenders were severely lashed and then "left to God" in the freezing night to die. "The parallels between Tibet and medieval Europe are striking," concludes Tom Grunfeld in his book on Tibet. (20)

Theocratic despotism had been the rule for generations. An English visitor to Tibet in 1895, Dr. A. L. Waddell, wrote that the Tibetan people were under the "intolerable tyranny of monks" and the devil superstitions they had fashioned to terrorize the people. In 1904 Perceval Landon described the Dalai Lama's rule as "an engine of oppression" and "a barrier to all human improvement." In 1937, another visitor, Spencer Chapman, wrote, "The Lamaist monk does not spend his time in ministering to the people or educating them, nor do laymen take part in or even attend the monastery services. The beggar beside the road is nothing to the monk. Knowledge is the jealously guarded prerogative of the monasteries and is used to increase their influence and wealth." (24)

I don't like either side of this detabe but do you really want to support another Taliban?
Comment on: Tibet | A colonial uprising | Economist.com at 3/24/2008 10:09 AM EDT
Do you want to support another Taliban?

Before 1959, Tibet was under the Lamaist (Buddhist) theocracy. Just like most theocracies in history, it was a very cruel and inhumane form of governing. Tibet before 1959 was close to, if not worse than, the Afghanistan under the Taliban regime.

Michael Parenti, a history professor from U.S, (http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html) provides the following finding:

"In the Dalai Lama's Tibet, torture and mutilation -- including eye gouging, the pulling out of tongues, hamstringing, and amputation of arms and legs -- were favored punishments inflicted upon thieves, runaway serfs, and other "criminals."

Some Western visitors to Old Tibet remarked on the number of amputees to be seen. Since it was against Buddhist teachings to take human life, some offenders were severely lashed and then "left to God" in the freezing night to die. "The parallels between Tibet and medieval Europe are striking," concludes Tom Grunfeld in his book on Tibet. (20)

Theocratic despotism had been the rule for generations. An English visitor to Tibet in 1895, Dr. A. L. Waddell, wrote that the Tibetan people were under the "intolerable tyranny of monks" and the devil superstitions they had fashioned to terrorize the people. In 1904 Perceval Landon described the Dalai Lama's rule as "an engine of oppression" and "a barrier to all human improvement." In 1937, another visitor, Spencer Chapman, wrote, "The Lamaist monk does not spend his time in ministering to the people or educating them, nor do laymen take part in or even attend the monastery services. The beggar beside the road is nothing to the monk. Knowledge is the jealously guarded prerogative of the monasteries and is used to increase their influence and wealth." (24)

I don't like either side of this detabe but do you really want to support another Taliban?
Comment on: Tibet | A colonial uprising | Economist.com at 3/24/2008 9:59 AM EDT
Have Tibetans been better off since 1959?

This question is strangely missing from most China-bashing articles relatedto the recent Tibetan riots. And the Economist only covered the economic part.

Let's be spiritual and skip the economy completely. Let's look at public health instead.

Life expectancy of Tibetan was 35.5 years in 1959 vs. 67 years in 2005.
And the infant mortality rate was 43% in 1959 and 3.1 % in 2005 (4.8% inCanada, 2006 data).

What happened? Since 1959, 1,326 new medical institutions have been built ,among which, 764 new hospitals or clinics, 79 disease prevention centers and55 health centers dedicated to women and children.

How about education? Before 1950, there was almost no decent school inTibet, less than 2% school-age children received education and theilliteracy rate was 95%. In 2003, 91.9% school-age children in Tibetenrolled in primary schools; 82.9% primary schools students continuedstudying in middle schools; and 72.1% middle school graduates continuedhigher education. All are decent numbers even they were from communities in U.S.

People generally agree - no matter what kind of religion they follow and whatkind of life harmony they pursue-that: live longer is good; fewer infantdeaths is good; more education is good.

Have Tibetans been better off?

And talking about the special treatment, in Tibet, Tibetans don't need to follow the famous one-child policy. The policy only applies to Han people.

It is a shame that most western reporters don't provide a comprehensive comparison or analysis...

Source: China Daily



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